more on "undo":

[See also the section: "technical debt and inverse operations"]

A dialogue:

S

I cannot confidently say that I have an undo mechanism, since I only sometimes think that I get it (the tech debt article helped but I read it a while ago and don't feel as confident in my understanding as I did when I first read it). How would one know? What is the subjective feeling of undoing something, concretely? What are the exact steps? The closest I can think of is how in exposure therapy, you expose yourself to the frightening stimulus in such a way as to break the undesired response.

M (not Mark, not necessarily the same M as in other dialogues and sections)

Here's one reference experience I had: Through meditation and psychedelics I've occasionally felt like I "returned to a previous save point" in some domain, and I could recognize that long ago I made a certain choice of how to go forward, but I now have a choice once again

This is my best referent for undoing for now

From what Mark says I suspect it can be a lot subtler tho

Actually a subtler example: i re-learned how to squat over the last few months, and I ran into over and over assumptions about the "right" way to do it or what I "knew" about what would happen if I did it differently. Those have steadily dissolved and been replace by new knowings (which are also moer correct AFAICT)

Mark

There’s ways in which "undoing" is so general that it’s sort of a (useful!) empty concept. I’m starting to also use "finding your way back [and then doing something different]," too.

Any time someone changes their mind or revises a belief or skill, some initial "undoing" has occurred. Meditation eventually facilitates very deep undoing, but it’s all the same continuum.

(Undoing is related to "memory reconsolidation," in the technical sense. Rather than "adding more compensation," something old actually becomes labile and then truly changes (while preserving memory and value).)

P

hmm, realizing that Mark’s notion of "general undo" really doesn't make sense to me. i think because it's like, how could i know that there wasn't something good in the thing to be "undone"? There's a sense where everything that happens, feels like it's "mine to integrate". And I don't know how to grok "undoing", but it feels like it would be disclaiming that responsibility, and giving up on something

undoing = getting rid of, and it feels wrong to get rid of something that could be good

M

[Ed.: See also the section: "technical debt and inverse operations" for more on "general undo"]

something is preserved, like the doing and undoing has been meta-recorded. something is latently, implicitly/"costlessly", recoverably preserved, even in "undoing"

and just generally, unless it’s really truly truly truly truly safe to let go of something, the system won’t let go of it. ultra conservative. maximally conservative.

H

to me, undoing feels like it's necessary in places where I'm sort of "locked into doing". Like part of me is stuck in 3rd gear (or neutral, or park, or..) and to undo is to free up the stick shift so the car can drive fluidly again

this metaphor might be incomplete and/or wrong in a bunch of ways but i like it

***

Notes:

• A note copied from the p2 notes: Regarding "undo," this can sometimes apply to things that "just happened" and can also apply to very old, localized or pervasive aspects of the system. It can be helpful to note that "undo" or "inverse operations" are happening all the time, like when a person learns something that contradicts an old "belief"--there will be some "layering," all things being equal, at least early in on meditation, but, mixed in with that, even at the beginning, will be some "undoing," too. Ditto for changes in behavioral propensities, preferences, etc., etc. etc. "Undoing" is very general and won't necessarily feel like "anything in particular"; it's almost a "contentless concept" or "empty concept" (perhaps concretely, phenomenologically speaking) that's directly-indirectly [sic] inferred. Eventually, there will be a tremendous amount of undoing (alongside all sorts of other things), during meditation.
• See also the section: "technical debt and inverse operations"